WWL>Topics>>5-20 2pm Robert Jenkins

5-20 2pm Robert Jenkins

May 20, 2011|

Spud talks to Attorney Robert Jenkins about a 15 year old teen put in prison because she refused to testify in a murder trial

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Early Friday. Not really talking about the -- and available there isn't breaking news will of course break in with a Monday when Obama talked production breath from mom friends. We'll talk -- people from the Pontchartrain basin that there's concern about scoring in the money in the about a -- -- find out more about that was the how Blake is -- on that'll be Monday on a sponsor -- meantime thanks for joining us today. Wait no hook up with with. Attorney Robert Jenkins -- humble foreign. Fifteen year old TV is on a paper today here's an article fifteen year old chain is put in prison well. They've vacated it but he was she was found in contempt of court sentenced six months the judge vacated it only -- but basically what the argument now is about. Here's why she refused to testify in a murder trial. Afraid of retaliation. Mom from family members. There was there were him while she was sitting in handcuffs in a courtroom and they were discussing whether or not she was gonna testify to your family members of the of the defendant staring out through the windows was she in the army was so. -- widow. It was judge right or wrong when he was he right and wrong intend making the decision of finding her in contempt of court. Was he right or wrong -- six -- was -- -- -- longer letting -- go and -- and releasing -- parents. I mean at the -- that the sad part about all this stuff feels well -- Watson says -- first -- -- somebody skill to begin with. We are constantly talking. In this city on this show on other shows. We're talk about the problem we have with you know aluminum and the stuff that's gone with the police department. But how many times -- we talked about how hard it is to get people to testify because they're afraid of retaliation. Now you can read a story about somebody who witnessed a crime at thirteen. Who. Is testifying at the age of fifteen. I don't know why she might have felt intimidated she may be scared she may be rethinking. Her what she actually saw. She refused to testify and is now facing contempt of court charges were -- blender and a pokey for six months and end. It's like I'll stalk and the other day what that kid the with a Secret Service and none in the FaceBook post. Just like I tell my kids you don't speak to police officers you can tell on your name. You tell my name and give -- my phone number and they can talk to you when I get there. And not before and if you read more stories like this you're gonna see less and less people. When they when they actually interviewing the witnesses then nobody is gonna see diddley squat anyway joining me now. To talk about this and take your calls and comments as attorney Robert Jenkins -- -- you don't. I'm fine how you been -- on time of talks you know you have. Unfortunately gesture I'd -- I mean it's not you know a year in -- this the the thing about it is your criminal lawyer criminal defense lawyer and that. That's you should be like man I got to practice and opening a law and -- -- all right well let's let's let's start out with the -- and you and I've spoken before about this very problem how hard it is to get people to step forward I mean I have the -- -- crime stoppers people come and go on what you can. Email us you can call Michigan Texas you can do all this stuff. Completely anonymously week we are bylaw forbidden from handing over. Any contact information to you so you can still get the information out there. To the law enforcement agencies. Without testifying -- you know to what you know but. -- mean is if I gotta tell if if read this story right here. I would be I would I would definitely have to think twice about that when my kids -- testify not only because of the retaliatory stuff but also because of fear what a judgment until. Well. Written story and you just don't know what happened in terms of intense situation I think that if to dish it turns out is new in fact that the witness to child witness who's gonna get up there. And refused to testify. And then there -- -- -- that the court may have been able to do this trying to get this thing through so I don't know what with a sequel. So should I mean they might not known that she might not have just refused to testify until she actually literally. Got on the stand and go I'm not talking. And and that's a possibility because you know maybe they've already prepped and she's ready to get on the witness stand in and what I understand it. Some of the senate and the -- -- out there -- in the courtroom and then at that point. She decided not to -- -- -- -- major problem because she's decided not to testify in front of that jury. And that's when you run in the confound mistrial. To -- attorney's office knew ahead of time. Then indeed this -- -- -- I'm going to testify at what they are obligated to have to tell the judge and the judge been removed the jury. And then instruct the witness stand -- trip to testify in the penalty content. So there's there's different thing that had an article that that's state this sequence that it happened. Yet you don't I understand what you say and -- but that's the scary part about this it's it's hard commuted to move. It would be harder for me to draw morrow who informed conclusion because -- less informed you know and and praised someone and read right now on I would basically have to go you know what I'm not put my kid in this situation. Well and that's what happened with debated and I understand this the kind of felt because -- -- -- -- Chief witness came forward initially when the crime happened -- describe committed -- crime so therefore that witnessed that we have to -- If we decides not to you don't prosecute because we have a child witness. Then of course a lot of murder case about these -- need to go out and -- and horrible for the they can afford to do that because then you have what I meant. Who committed America backed out of -- street. Yeah well I mean that's seems like the catch 22 situation that -- That we've been going through for a long time you're not gonna get -- see that's why keep pushing the crime stoppers thing I mean yeah you gotta have people we get up there and testify but frankly. There's no reason for you not to at least inform the police and give them information that they might be able to prove something. Through another set -- means because you can. Testify you can give information completely anonymously. But you know. Every damn I have to say I mean it who has. The DA's office doesn't have the money doesn't come -- -- somebody's blog responses to this to this story dribble going well just cinema weigh on. On witness protection fine get out to -- -- luncheon -- on your fishing camp in Mississippi they can go hide in no. Then what -- find out there and in some cases where you have bad. They just can't afford to do that in every case so that you have wouldn't have -- relocate -- new homes and apartment whatever they just can't put to do it. This system of already broke into the you know protecting witnesses and I understand that but just can't do that but I thought about it that that they may have may have committed. Due to do it can be to district attorney's office -- That this particular witness so I'm gonna testify and remember about the constitution as big of erratic confrontation any. The defendant has they write to confront the witnesses against him to this child so young that you probably could have. -- that courtroom and allow the child testified. Without any. Personnel in the courtroom. But the fact of the matter is we're still talking about. You know public information on how to you know -- look her name to send the paper how old she is is in the paper -- -- whether. If it's there would be a you can pretty much gas while she might then she just stood there do they accuse -- certainly has a right. To confront -- the witnesses. And what clearing the courtroom at what is I can be good for today are such as well a bit more measure of uncertainty to. It's unfortunate but it was good for the date for the trial looked and and and you understand that she has to go back amendment that community would family. And retaliation may be episode of very very difficult. Situation. And this particular case. I believe -- the mistrial. They resent the divide that may be some issues where the state will say look we don't really relocate you -- you mentally. And immunology and maybe with the current intensifies -- -- -- but it doesn't that help the next case becomes the law. No it doesn't unfortunate too many cases out there around. That's correct and and and it's the real threat when you have to get on the witness stand and then go back to the community -- backstage. When no protection. All right -- I'm gonna hang which Iran now I'm alive I'm good 'cause I got to step away and got some good calls in the next question are -- down -- forget and -- ago when. The next question I have though is where we're talking about. Eyewitnesses and you're you're defense attorney how easy or hard as it -- surely -- credit. An eyewitness especially eyewitness who was thirteen. At the time and a crime is two years later I mean worthy. Or they put too much emphasis on this. On on an eyewitness anyway I mean who seemed to me you can show me a picture. -- usually pretty good but I'm certainly better with somebody that I'm acquainted with ahead of time but if it's a complete stranger. If I'm not where my glasses it's pointless and Daria right now so we'll pick it up the other Robert -- my guess attorney. Criminal defense attorney as a former state public defender we're talking about the move the situation with this fifteen year old girl. -- she refuses to testify she was found in contempt. Is she scared is she rightfully scared was the judge right or wrong in finding her I mean -- vacate edition of that to go to jail. But the fact of the matter is. Is she gonna have to go testify and is she gonna do it and in what would you do in this situation displeasure to begin seven you'll get a cup of coffee we're gonna talk. Hey this is Jerry -- right now and WWL dot com we have the very latest on the cresting of the Mississippi River we've -- information on how to report -- -- and how to help people and animals displaced by this -- current photos and videos of this historic event and you can also find all of -- all your interviews with federal state and local officials about how this flooding is impacting Louisiana it's all online right now at WWL dot com. Spot here you know you look back on the history in Orleans and and see all the struggles that everybody is gone through the people on the citizens and the whole community. Businesses galore have suffered just like the folks says ask has lessened Chevrolet but you know what their struggle and they -- persevere they worked hard. And now they made a bank even stronger may continue to build and grow. They're packing a big lot and -- -- truckloads you know quality pre owned vehicles a big one is that. 15 AM West Bank expressway and -- can pick I mean this fourteen acres out there. Right there on the west bank and army. They got incredible deals on hundreds of a strongest safest vehicles in the Chevrolet lineup didn't do so -- -- -- lesson surely -- common -- Pro shop online with a cars that they have when you found was and what they can even look for cars. You know if you want a specific type -- car bill look across the country for if they find that bring a bank. Clean it up and you can drive it away. 1501 West Bank expressway and a quick copper cross the river get all of them but don't live up to their modeling guarantee you'll spend less a lot less and less and several. -- On line in my experience is going to be at the -- and morial convention senators. Not to say that but the 28. Just people listen and -- in eighth caller that. When you hear red red wine -- -- to six so wins 2609467. You're gonna win and if you don't win the tickets today's storm another chance. Com news go -- RW revealed -- come become a big talker register to win. And if you're already a member of the email club just login -- register on May 26 are gonna pick five lucky winners at random. And at least get a pair of tickets so listen up today I'll be given away a pair today and on the 26 will be given away people who sign -- to be big talkers at WWL backup. I might just this hour is -- Robert Jenkins criminal defense attorney former public defender we're talking about the the process was -- the conversation is this a fifteen year old girl. Found in contempt. About the judge they vacated if she could she could face six months in the pokey right right Robert. I have been. And I love says the disk to be an up to six months then you would -- six months. Six months in the Julie correct. -- not talking. That's correct well active tonight. -- -- -- -- -- Which was not talk and she's refusing to testify -- all mean. Minutes -- so many I don't know there's so many different ways through and things that normally -- a colossal sort of people on another and Donald and Algiers and I think Donald what's gone wrong. Bill for the liberal man. Both talked about -- group -- architect you can't -- -- the same situation down here and look. What happened and cameras Omaha. Ten. We neighbor will go Barbara got broken into. Your would have more. But he's going to be a good but I am. I can enable children to people -- they broke in Howell the good guys and everything like that we reported -- The police can't. Our children that there are cameras and everything with the people born and how doing what it was doing. -- -- -- -- gimmick that they have been. The burden that my next thing you know -- -- -- -- pain I think but nothing like what got home. So I didn't but I don't count but I am trying to think I'm bigger impact give them a copy of what happened someone broken table -- I -- I don't know about the past the and so okay. I get subpoena I have to political. Not a technical. Waiting for a bit just to support Capel got finals go I don't. I'm confident and -- I'm thinking that's going to be and will be tough to find it again. No no I don't fit next to him and you paint popping. It'll -- to -- that might complicate the so next thing you know that job you take that everybody -- -- that he would say you. Not only did he say yeah. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- It hasn't got -- -- -- -- -- what the next thing you know and -- OK but he won't he you know. And done it before it sold -- being -- it's it to a fifth and he told him when -- -- -- we had been complete. -- you know between the unit and even he could take afford to. Okay and sort of guy that's the first time -- -- a good idea and upon how. He meant being compelled them to the burglary and the glory appellate judge the gun at my first time he jumped 80000. Little home -- on a constant severe and can not the time that -- and tell him. We gonna give -- the -- potential felt that got the the -- if you wanna take -- pretty. -- wanna do that cut output at the that you had tried them on it and meet and but come on people who are not. We know we as we are not gonna have -- that we have the way. And -- god god also not -- -- date. That this whether you have to about pick the day and I ran around. A pistol or meet. Aaron -- -- got Obama can't happen. Do you want -- but -- -- but couldn't immediately that I have the dude went and. I'm probably I'd never do that but it will Mark Campbell Tim Campbell to get an -- Tyler didn't have to the -- and how much how. And -- -- -- it and say output any -- what my camera about it period against the tobacco wanna put myself in get in my family again. Right I got to hang on a second -- or what what would he have testified to. I'm beyond the beyond what was on of. And they -- -- indicate that the legitimate evidence that the chain of custody no doubt that the reason not to be an event and the scenario. Well I mean how many situations arise that you're aware of army -- percentage wise where. I mean you do see we're -- I know you see a lot of retaliatory stuff and in murders I mean I know you see a lot of that what I mean. How how could Don we'll have been intimidated. Below -- with the I mean if if he would've gotten up and testify no that's not my video then then they wouldn't ahead in the -- He -- you know just listen to him I doubt that. You know there is profitably develop the Trout bay -- would be the first time that he will be leaving the DA probably was a in motion hearing. Are another hearing because the DA usually just sit down and talk to be a witness to know they are and given them a comment a company like this wouldn't happen I don't understand how it. He got there at this with the -- big in the first time that you was involved because this shouldn't happen because. But you know let's see you go to court everyday -- Donald how often you go to court. You know what I don't understand the workings of this stuff and I mean I understand it's hearings and such but I mean frankly -- You know as far as I'm concerned every time I got to show up in a court house it to me it's a trial. Glad you're absolutely right and correct about one thing you know. That should never have been NBA -- between. He ended the defendant in this case sort of goes back to the district attorney's office and giving their witnesses whether you can be so they can protect him and -- -- -- And rug like bombing dollar appreciate the calling a simple way don't go to our -- ago the causing no question that a text messages. What is -- society come to we're going to force a child to testify but a spouse can be forced to testify against his or her response sums terribly wrong but I got a bunch of course -- here's another one. Maybe if they wouldn't take two years to go to court the witness in the case wouldn't grow cold. More those kinds of comments when we get back here in the meantime Don -- bring us up today in and every thing else is going on. There will be back Richard calls almost -- Rondo really you know. Robert Jenkins on beer -- my guests this hour a Virginia -- along. Former public -- defend public defender. We're talking about situations and trials and specifically about this this scared team witness refuses to testify in a murder trial sort of judge inserted generally he -- -- -- sort of six months. He vacated it in and let her loose. But. Cindy talk or Robert I mean -- We have them know. Massively huge crime problem here we have our police department that is -- Losing trust of the people more and more by the day. Their stories coming out it's to went abroad that you know judges I mean there are tennis -- the DA has is his Fossum and the judges don't. You guys coming crank out some cases for crying out loud. I mean and you know I think this disparate and when this article comes out. I gotta get again I gotta tell you I got a thirteen year old daughter and if I saw more stuff like this happened I mean this happened in in in -- -- pastor did that. It happened just -- -- in a zone that they could have been anywhere -- just -- it brought. Yeah we have but it's I mean that's well it is a different animal because there are different judges are different police but the fact of matter it's it's an entire. It's it's a logo of faith in the in the entire criminal justice system an entire southeastern part of city Louisiana and and you know. What are we gonna do to fix it I mean can we even fix -- people just coming into the part where. Unless they really get to the old west but it's like it's like Donald said you know what for thirty days are carried a pistol with me everywhere I went. Yeah right what the problem is decision knowing it. This state to city cannot protect witnesses who just can't. What are we gonna. Why would anybody testify if they gonna if they going to be scared especially. Dummies like every time you open your mouth is the Hatfield and mccoys. -- -- -- and yet we're still the number one state. In the country of the number one country of incarceration so mean. United States incarcerate more than anybody else and stay Louisiana incorporates more than any other state and so obviously some opens. Something's going on out terrible I think a majority of people sit in the poke your children like you know possess and have from bag or something like that. What are you I mean. What you cell companies shoes there Robert what would you be doing if you had a fifteen year old that you were thought were so afraid to testify and -- her testimony to -- I'm. To be honest with you then I was living in the very community and external individuality by as good not to testify I mean totally because. -- the case is over you got so much retaliation. The most dangerous. I understand. The criminal justice system but I would do just that just says. No Madonna is anything. And yet you being an officer of the court if you got caught. If there's somebody heard if you said that on a phone call with somebody actually your recorded and played that froze judges what would you what kind of trouble would you be it. Well some outfitted as a citizen Biden and reality that turned -- -- -- that it wouldn't must not within a world trouble but the reality is is that. A lot of the people cannot be protected event to get afraid. It doesn't happen as much as people think that about a retaliation but when it happens it's all of the newspaper like the company. Every day. Well yeah I mean it doesn't happen a lot but it only needs -- in my family wants that correct you know I mean. That's it's it's it's a great big catch Tony too because I'm sitting here tell people when I talk about the that you have to pick up the phone. You have to tell -- -- we're not gonna get any better as a community if the if the bad guys get away with this kind of stuff we have to do it. But I ain't got the three kittens. You know I -- I don't have one daughter to who plays the clarinet I don't have a one -- -- and banjo I can't go out and make anymore and 52 is well. And the hard decision is a hard call but you know I actually what I -- but I hope that. I would say no we don't do the right thing in -- you know hope for the best. You know because otherwise it individual committed a crime and mine parliament goes the only ones who saw it in every walk away from continue to want that as well. Well not only that if your son or daughter if they knew you testified anything new you could be a witness they would still come after you. I mean the possibility exists -- zero. Maybe just make clear that taken a time until legal settlement to be safe and and they put amount Amare reach an and they gonna come back a minute take care -- -- -- I can't. Or or you could also mean. Retaliation. -- take place you know a year from now two years from now don't know when you think everything is settled down there in jail their appeals are done they're going to jail. And and the next thing you know some Kook because in the sizing or make it. Good. You know. I mean I mean that is the problem he's just don't know what to do but the truth of the matter is there's. Instead of the testifying. Then not to. Rapidly grow McCall to six only seven bombs on -- -- short. Which they Bob I don't. Today I'm fine. I hope I never in this particular vote like this girl -- I -- -- either but I couldn't let my child took -- our duds they used on the -- It's never and that agreement which -- to -- This but he met -- important people in jail for petty things. You can't tell me we have the worst people in the entire world here. And couldn't ignore problems. Including natural completely the entire world I'm not sure would be -- wrapped up per capita. Entry into my neighbors are the worst people in the entire world that we've got people who can't testify because that. Mean. I'm -- atop the -- incredibly durable. Are forced but just don't. And what do on the -- Com what what what Khatami must want slums of talking about. The crime stoppers thing I'm trying to figure out and I couldn't. I gotta tell yet as much as I wouldn't necessarily that my daughter -- my -- -- stand up in front album intensify. I couldn't in good conscience. Not conveyed this information. To the police you know I mean -- bush Robert if if if if I saw if my kid saw who didn't win told me I know them I know where they live and up they did it I saw them do it. Com I -- what what I do how can like how how can I convey that information to the police. And and somebody like you are to a district attorney could use that information without my kids -- and get up on just. Well it would be very very difficult around if you commit to the police and the police and speak with you and your -- confirms that. Then it and that if there's an arrest any you know which he has to testify. She had to testify. I'd like you got your thought as bad. -- and -- down. I just I don't know there again the -- -- to you gotta do you in the place nobody. Nobody deserves to have or witness not to salami if you or the victim of a crime -- on your family. They deserve to have justice and they're not gonna get justice -- should testify but I'm not -- I'm not going to be looking for justice myself because my kid got. Shot or scared or -- and I want my my and my kid the rest of their life looking over their shoulder because somebody committed a crime and problem. But that's the best that the level and in the end of the defendants who worked committing these crimes know that if we can intimidate. Hard to read you then you won't testifies about the dilemma. Yeah yeah and if Bob I appreciate the call -- got a simple way though don't go anywhere Harold and renting a bunch of good here. A Mo boom boom boom. Can they make everyone leave the courtroom for someone to testify like that for protection yeah we talk about that briefly put the question is I mean do you mind that might make him -- the courtroom right now. But that doesn't mean the information that that you said on the stand in front of the jury and nobody in the courtroom is still not gonna get out in the retaliation could still be there. You don't -- I don't know I don't know if it's a sticky situation Robert Jenkins my guess more your calls and comments -- impetus to negate semi Demi Libya. Don't forget will be given away a pair of tickets to New Orleans wine and food experience we're almost torn apart from earlier on earn eighty bucks. This -- that eighth caller to six so 9467. When you hear the song red red wine. Just believe caller you win that -- tickets to six Sony seventies and number 866889087. Or toll free -- Robert Jenkins as my guest. Let me ask you some -- and I gotta go microphones. Com. We're talking about this fifteen year old girl put a lot of people who were you know retaliated against and there's a lot of people won't testify because they are fit afraid of retaliation. But this girl we're also talk about a -- I mean she was thirteen when she witnessed it is two years later she's fifteen now she's scared. This all kinds of assumptions that are being made. In a situation like this. I've seen I seen where like they'll have undercover officers testifying in don't have like screens up so people can't see him because they're still. Working on active vote of cases and things like that. Because. This girl is a minor because the good the witnesses a minor is scanned some kind of income needle thing like that we don't wear her. -- -- Identity is revealed only to the judge in the district attorney and the lead attorney and that's that. Not likely because. At some point. If you put up a screen is something in the courtroom and matured and had betrayed the idea that differences dangerous and and and she's afraid of them. Whatever so then the jury is prejudiced that indeed this person so vendors must jump street in the U you'll put the font type of challenges and appeals. -- -- but I mean if they were along about factors that would just be an assumption on your part of protecting over juvenile I mean you'd you don't they don't release that kind of information. You know this I mean I've read articles and put in a paper about you know somebody abusing their child and they're not releasing the name of that person -- they wanna protect the identity of the -- it. Did they wanna protect did that come from in the public but you have that right to probably US constitutional confrontation but he can't do it in the corporate -- because. He has the right to confront and cross examine the witnesses. And put any type of screen hide their faces you betraying your income for the jury that this man so dangerous. That he needs to be found guilty. An immigrant and a phone call to six Sony Sony is up. Jason and also so Jason -- you don't. One I didn't get back we'll look at cars that are I would never put myself that -- of the situation and have. In the community. That's the thing I've been permanent or -- -- people. Decades and decades alone there are people now the executive Robert Kelly into the camera. People get out of you come back you get that they've bought quite sitting on the street did you when it kept apart or get promoted 1015 years ago he sort of -- -- you regardless. It's so it like is it can't be doing you're damned if you don't move would you -- yourself and your feminine aspect it's -- we can -- -- prosecuted. Another match and it felt. Well let's not only not turn of the bill those who talk to Robert about this on mean. And they're they're I mean are there are situations out there Robert where even if I don't testifying. You know -- I could still be in danger my kid can still be endangered because of the I might be able to tell yet. And that's exactly true because it in you know this but that. In the state of Louisiana and -- -- the murder has opened script of statue limitations so. That doesn't mean that OK I mean I testify this year and take our mind and obviously good to be convinced me -- testify and I'm still. The situation -- it on endangered. Yet and the police gonna protect you witness protection. Definitive and have no money troops aren't the -- depiction of the city. So what does the record for the principles to do. And picked up in the -- like me happen young African American Bennett it somehow wanted to put classified diplomatic. Somebody combatant he'll need more people epitome of another young -- another young. Had just -- on this one more black on black crime and it's a painless and go wow why you know is that retaliation ours because he was involved in Solomon in Al -- because. You trying to do the right thing and make you city about a place to live in and you're just a footnote in in the history of the city. Gave me today that it fully before my -- wow what apple mop up -- bad because somebody outbid. So NN that while the back while our people think they're okay so are they turn out our -- -- -- -- because you have -- is spam with. In all you know the compound these people that come not -- -- -- that you get from happy you'll find. Yeah you're steady on the cover and. Yeah they don't care who it is as long as long as you as long as you keep your -- show I mean the ultimate thing to do of course would be to shut your mouth. But who's to say they -- -- -- -- you're not caught shorten somebody else's -- coming on and on and it's just it's it's again it's the it's the -- point two -- one reasons was still on them in the quagmire that were -- Jason appreciate you calling got to step away 26 only seven more your calls and comments and we'll throw more stuff into an iPod speaker notes become a court. I just got this -- Fort Hood. Shooter. From major Nadal Hassan. Yes well his lawyers are asking the commanding general to take the death penalty off the table we'll take your comments and calls about that when next hour especially a stick around -- right -- cancer also into the next hour on this very topic I'll throw some more stuff on the pot. My guess Robert Jenkins who are turning lower target was on the conversation is is this the story in the paper. About a fifteen year old girl witness who refuse to testify and the judge. Foundering contempt. But cheek I mean -- to order a lot of this is we're speculate across the board for the fact there's a mask and would you let -- thirteen year old or fifteen year old daughter testify would you be scared of retaliation and yet if you say. No like -- -- and know how you expect in your neighborhood your city to get any better you gotta get you gotta get rid of bad guys. And yet if you turn around become a vigilante you'd just as bad as the person to try to put in jail summing you don't act in what's. What's the short term answer there Robert -- have a clue. Don't of the land whether -- that the answer is better want to testify but I. They make things better and there's no even years because if you don't do it but yes people honestly -- history. Which we have a whole lot of right now historic. And we also have. Mistrust of the authorities mistrust of the judges you know. Oh -- I especially mean that I'm sorry but it didn't do the judges June Darren -- the judge. Is didn't you know it didn't exactly razor and opinion of members Joe blow on the -- on the fifteen year old girl -- -- into the pokey for six months. Because she was too scared to testify in a murder trial here in this study we know. I think he's. Oh well at least we have -- You're a man Robert I appreciate you thank you very much -- 26 Boeing seven is the number here 86 -- -- they're always having more your colleague calls hang on I'll take.